- EO Charging offers a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh advised us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll have to preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a mission, together with good vitality administration, will help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have totally different infrastructure wants. EO charging gives month-to-month cost plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, in an effort to deal with totally different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a site or a mobile phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely on a stack, which is a hip method of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could rely on extremely specialised proprietary expertise. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which are anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising subject reminiscent of EV charging infrastructure, it could be laborious for potential prospects to determine how the totally different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them could be advanced—just like the listing of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations specialise in one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the perfect course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match totally different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of prospects does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal prospects are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, reminiscent of Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which are beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as nicely.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging immediately—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about quite a bit. I for one thought it was an amazing firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by way of the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, just a little bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had numerous capital that bought burned by way of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t hand over on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three totally different house owners now. Proterra had the perfect battery expertise on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the perfect battery expertise. There are numerous corporations that may use their battery techniques and have numerous success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by way of the expertise that was given beginning by Proterra.
Sorting by way of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are numerous items to the charging puzzle. You’ve gotten your personal proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s selection. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options primarily based on the ability ranges that they want. If you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually vital that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s a must to preserve the chargers?” Properly, you have to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and doubtless a very powerful piece we now have, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. If in case you have a mobile phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even understand it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep. If you happen to decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two totally different telephone calls. That’s what prospects are annoyed with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
One in all our authentic buyers was an organization known as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide prospects. You might ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that numerous the issues are as a result of there may be half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a mission.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure prospects or sure corporations. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the prime of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as unhealthy. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their fingers. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve bought three totally different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at totally different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three totally different software program packages and three totally different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see every little thing in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their fingers.”
For these about to impress
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are a few of the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You might want to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you have got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, in the event you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. We’ve to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s whenever you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Properly, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do numerous modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles we now have. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we now have on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two totally different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of evening at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking thousands and thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Properly, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing numerous proper now with prospects that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every little thing out—rip and exchange. Now, the expertise’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every little thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous vital.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as ordinary.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we now have to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which are going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Properly, immediately, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They refill at evening, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month cost. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Degree 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is absolutely enticing to numerous fleet prospects.
We provide a month-to-month cost by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some prospects have numerous idle time. Some prospects are placing numerous miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as nicely. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want numerous batteries on our vans, as a result of, in the complete day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s totally different from any person in Kansas that may be working a great distance. So, we need to give these choices to prospects and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Degree 2 and keep away from a few of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Degree 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it suits with numerous fleet prospects as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is absolutely enticing—you don’t need to get right into a Degree 3, which could be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we now have them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Degree 2 charger in Europe, however the one we now have right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, whenever you see our label on it, it’s a must to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any person else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re blissful.
The same old questions on traits
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s numerous corporations, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Just lately, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a superb factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we want the suitable variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s perhaps half the scale of a van, and it suits within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking on area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high charge, but it surely lets you cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually provides you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage expertise, or have you learnt of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in every of our companions at Proterra. They do have the expertise, but it surely’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Residing right here in Florida, if we now have a storm and the electrical energy goes down, nicely, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply need to have the potential to drag it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
